2002 Subaru Usdm Ej205 2.0l Camshaft Position Non Avcs Sensor Not Reading

Hi,
Its been a long wait (2011) simply I'chiliad happy that MS3 has come along with VVT support.
I am currently setting up a JDM EJ20 to control Intake but AVCS. As some of y'all alredy know control is via PWM oil control valves of the PID variety.
I am using Firmware 1.4.1rel lawmaking on this install on a ver 3 mainboard with ms3x menu. Tunerstudio version is three.0.10 . Msq and datalog attached

And so far I have succeeded in running batchfire, wasted COP and full sequential on the 36-2-2-ii Ign setup. I am attempting to configure the VVT with 1 channel outputting on INJ 1(one solenoid per DB37 PIN. Notwithstanding have to run two IN4001s as Jean had recommended for PWM inj1 circuit). Outputs to the control valve accept tested OK in test mode. I am too able to see a 45-46 degree angle registering on the VVT1 angle guage so the cam signal appears solid.
The cam signals this engine uses are - Two teeth on Cam sprocket and 4 evenly spaced teeth on the rear of the cam.

I have read the Setting upwards manual on open loop testing-looks straightforward. Where do I get TDC reference for angle change if Cam 1 defaults to main input?
Not proficient with quotes but I saw Matt suggested to someone to endeavour using the 4 molar signal as sync and the two tooth to measure range. How tin can this exist done in sequential mode?

Tin can I create a dummy Cam 1 and do the active control using cam 2?

Some help would exist greatly appreciated on this one

Post by **CRSTune** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:23 am

subatoy71 wrote:Hi,
Its been a long look (2011) but I'yard happy that MS3 has come along with VVT support.
I am currently setting up a JDM EJ20 to command Intake only AVCS. As some of you alredy know command is via PWM oil command valves of the PID variety.
I am using Firmware 1.four.1rel lawmaking on this install on a ver 3 mainboard with ms3x card. Tunerstudio version is three.0.x . Msq and datalog attached

So far I take succeeded in running batchfire, wasted COP and total sequential on the 36-2-2-two Ign setup. I am attempting to configure the VVT with 1 aqueduct outputting on INJ 1(ane solenoid per DB37 Pin. Still take to run two IN4001s as Jean had recommended for PWM inj1 circuit). Outputs to the control valve have tested OK in test mode. I am as well able to meet a 45-46 caste angle registering on the VVT1 angle guage and then the cam signal appears solid.
The cam signals this engine uses are - 2 teeth on Cam sprocket and four evenly spaced teeth on the rear of the cam.

I have read the Setting upwards manual on open loop testing-looks straightforward. Where do I get TDC reference for bending alter if Cam 1 defaults to principal input?
Non skillful with quotes simply I saw Matt suggested to someone to try using the iv tooth signal as sync and the two molar to measure out range. How tin can this be done in sequential fashion?

Tin I create a dummy Cam i and do the agile control using cam 2?

Some assistance would exist profoundly appreciated on this ane

The TDC reference comes from the crank trigger, not the cam trigger on the 36-2-2-2. The cam trigger is used merely to determine phase and camshaft position.

Are you sure it's 4 equal teeth on the back of the cam and not a 4-one scheme (AVCS EJ'south use this)? If so, you won't be using the 2 tooth bespeak, just the iv-ane tooth betoken if I'k not mistaken.

Post by **subatoy71** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:05 pm

How-do-you-do CRSTune,

No the 4-1 rear cam trigger is U.s. just. This is a JDM engine- 4 evenly spaced triggers, none missing.

Cheque this out

http://world wide web.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page= ... woMinusTwo

Likewise the primary cam trigger is existence used as I am running sequential mode. Is it that the rear trigger will just be counted the starting time molar subsequently TDC on the creepo bespeak and the other 3 pulses ignored?

Wont that also imply that I tin can but utilize VVT in non-sequential way?

Post by **CRSTune** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 iv:43 pm

subatoy71 wrote:Howdy CRSTune,

No the 4-1 rear cam trigger is Usa simply. This is a JDM engine- 4 evenly spaced triggers, none missing.

Check this out

http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page= ... woMinusTwo

Besides the chief cam trigger is being used as I am running sequential manner. Is it that the rear trigger will just exist counted the first molar after TDC on the creepo signal and the other three pulses ignored?

Wont that also imply that I can only utilise VVT in non-sequential style?

Well that does make things catchy. It might exist easier to just shave off 3 out of the 4 teeth on the camshaft, though that'due south a bit of work.

What virtually setting upward VVT control for 4 VVT's? Y'all could designate VVT1 as an exhaust cam using the master cam input. Gear up VVT'south 2 and three to be your intake cams and you'll exist able to select their ain cam sensors. VVT iv would exist left as an frazzle cam.

Mail by **subatoy71** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 five:54 pm

Tpsretard,

I combed the forum last night for this platform and Im seeing things like grinding teeth to suit the decocoder, etc. Dont get the impression this trigger is supported. Lamentable.This MS3 install is the cleanest I accept always got these engines running. And thats compared to OEM and other bignamed ecu platforms I've used over the years. PS romtuning sucks!

I am reluctant to inform my customer I would be removing his newly congenital engine to grind teeth on his make new, expensive operation cams. Im besides not sure if the triggers on the bachelor US verion of these cams are of a similar top, duplicating the airgap on the VR sensors.

I agree that the JDM version should exist supported. Hither in the Caribbean 99.999% of all Subaru engines are JDM. They are choice meat in the US too.

I furnished Ken with some information in 2010. My contour says Iyesterday I think only Ijoined in 2010. I've been off the map since 2012 I think. Here I am over fifteen MS installs and a few repairs later on.
Coincidentally, yourself and jasaircraft had responded back and then too; 2 years afterward in 2013 there were some enquiries too.

In fairness to Ken and James, in hindsight I did a poor job of following upwardly with more than data. Dont think I had the resources either.
I will still brand adept on this. While I notwithstanding accept the auto in my possesion I will borrow a vr conditioner from some other MS and practise a datalog on all 4 sensors. i.e crank, main cam, and both left and right triggers. I know both left and right intake cams have iv teeth just Im not certain if their phasing is identical. At to the lowest degree nosotros would take some solid data to piece of work with. If they dont accept information technology already...

Longer term I will brand myself available for whatsoever testing since I also ain a car with the identical engine. Been parked upwards since 2012. Time to dust it off lol!

Post past **tpsretard2** » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:12 am

yup you are right, Barbados and Trinidad 99.5% of all subaru's and parts are JDM or EDM which share the same setup. I have been to a few other Caribbean area territories and it is much the aforementioned. I would look that a lot more JDM engines will end up in the U.s.a. too soon, the 818 motorcar and a few others that apply a subaru as a parts bin to build it. Many people are now importing them. At the moment some are doing the usual reflash as they all have open up source flash capabilities, but the usfulness of this apace runs out and direction is the only path to become.

The dirvability and features i go with the MS3 system are simply seen with BIG name ecu's like pectel and motec. Nonetheless, i have rumfuled the feathers of some other auto that actually has in a motec m800 and was interested in a megasquirt. Simply the AVCS scared him off also as he is not willing to open up the engine to grind down his cam teeth..

EDM/JDM 2001-2006 single AVCS
Crank trigger, 36-two-2-2
Home trigger, 2 teeth 90deg appart (this is the aforementioned for all)
AVCS trigger, 4 at 90deg - moves when cam angle moves

Both AVCS sensors are HALL Consequence
Frequency 300hz
Lo Limit 35
Howdy Limit 45

I would beloved to get this setup, merely i am suspecting that it will have an advanced user to talk with James for code testing and debugging. I am still months away from getting my new chassis upwardly and running. i take gotten a stock ecu that i would flash while i as well design a plug and play lath for the ms3pro.

Thu Oct 27, 2016 v:45 am

It'due south difficult to back up every single combination, especially when some manufacturers have then many unlike trigger schemes for no apparently practiced reason.

Even so, for widely used or upward and coming engines I would similar to have full support. I never similar the thought of grinding off teeth.

Delight, if possible, nowadays a clear explanation of what crank and cam patterns are there - supported with photos, composite logs and manufacturers diagrams.

James

Post past **tpsretard2** » Thu Oct 27, 2016 x:34 am

The USA spec sti engine are the merely different ones actually. All the other location of the EJ20 engines with single AVCS (both intake cams) use the same 36-ii-2-2 wheel on the creepo and the 2 cam teeth, which i believe is working. (equally there is a PNP model for this)

The EDM/JDM and latin american engines utilise 4 evenly spaced teeth on the intake cams. Timing tables are hard to notice but i volition see what i can do. might have to await till i have the engine in the car (which will be some time) or if someone is able now, take a high speed capture of the engine.

Mail service by **subatoy71** » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:32 pm

Well that 36-two-2-2 creepo pattern with two teeth on the cam sprocket is exactly what I have now. I have successfully run it in batch mode and its presently running in full sequential mode.
I got the donor MS to salvage the VR conditioner from today. I will come across what I tin can practise to add the left and right four molar rear cam signals tonight, if non tomorrow. Might need to re-shuffle some inputs too. Hope I have some shielded wire hanging around somewhere...

Mail past **subatoy71** » Thu October 27, 2016 10:41 pm

Had to run off on an emergency this night. Its besides late to start and then I accept postponed till tomorrow.

TPS- I have seen lots of confusion nigh these sensors on forums like Nasioc but these sensors are all VR. The crank master cam and rear camm trigger sensors are alike, i fact have utilise a creepo sensor to substitute a cam sensor before.
The

VR sensor .jpg

log blueprint seen on cranking rise and autumn in strength(bar peak);typical characteristic of reluctors. My rule of thumb tends to say two- wire, magnetic its a vr, three wire almost e'er a hall sensor. of couse you can always check with an oscilliscope. VR or Hall won't matter every bit the decoder will recognise the trigger anyhow. Attached some pics

James- I volition bank check to see if I even so have factory pics of the signal patterns though some of these might exist in Japanese. I volition at least interpret the figures. The datalogs of class should stand for.

Mail by **tpsretard2** » Fri Oct 28, 2016 five:34 am

In manufactory condition. There are 4 positioning sensors for the EJ20 single AVCS JDM/EDM engines.
1. Creepo sensor - 36-2-2-two = VR (2 Wire)
ii. (Habitation) CAM sensor - two = VR (2 wire)
3. Right hand cam phase - 4 teeth = HALL (three wire and your second pic)
iv. Left hand cam phase - 4 teeth = HALL (3 wire and your second pic)

The Abode Cam sensor in mounted on the left hand side behind the cam gear, the cam phase sensors are mounted on top the head to the back.

Post past **subatoy71** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 ii:42 pm

Apologies for the delay but 'Ive been quite decorated this weekend with other stuff.
In between, I managed to splice in the additional wires into my setup to cover the two additional sensors forth with some other planned items I had on hold.

Could not find the right capacitor to test the new inputs to exam the circuits on the stim in VR emulation. If memory serves me correctly, the LM fries on the vr card wont burn down on the stim without an inline capacitor, just I think my wiring should exist OK.

I'm not at home yet but should be able to post the logs in a few hours in one case all goes well.

Post by **tpsretard2** » Monday October 31, 2016 3:01 pm

subatoy71 wrote:
Could non observe the right capacitor to exam the new inputs to test the circuits on the stim in VR emulation. If memory serves me correctly, the LM fries on the vr bill of fare wont fire on the stim without an inline capacitor, but I think my wiring should exist OK.

I'thou non at home however but should exist able to mail service the logs in a few hours once all goes well.

can you start by shoing me a pic of the sensors y'all have, sounds like you are making a vr conditioner where you do not have to..

Mail past **tpsretard2** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:09 pm

i do not know what you lot accept but i have never seen i with vr sensor's for the cam phasing. :Oi am at a loss
Unless you are sealing with an ej25x engine, or a type i have just never seen (and i accept seen a lot). i know they employ different sensors, simply i never idea that they would be VR.

That said, the HALL sensors are and then cheap that i would convert to them, no racket, no workout zippo. bolt in, wire in BOOM..

I have actually used them to replace the cam sensor and crank sensor when going to standalone's similar the megasquirt :O

Post by **subatoy71** » Mon October 31, 2016 11:01 pm

OK got the adapter harness and MS back in. Not sure what log we needed simply pulled 2 engine logs so far. They are both too large to upload it seems. I volition do some much shorter ones tomorrow; unless I can electronic mail them.
Did add a snapshot of the signals though. Xanthous is Main Cam, cherry and white are the rear triggers.

JDM VVT signals graph.png

My pin config is:

Pin 24- Creepo Bespeak
MS3x -Main Cam input on Sprocket
PT5-JS10-LH Rear Intake Cam Trigger
PT4-RH Rear Intake Cam Trigger

TPS, all the EJ AVCS engines I've encountered hither are all VR sensor equiped. I only heard about the Hall sensor usage a few years agone. Not sure if its on newer models or if its a United states of america affair...

Tue Nov 01, 2016 iii:59 am

The singals you lot screen shot look to exist right. Y'all might accept to do a high speed capture of the creepo, cam and ii cam stage sensors for james.

Simply he can clarify exactly what is needed.

Post by **subatoy71** » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:x pm

It'south pouring cats and dogs at my end. Wont be exterior for a while.

Hither is some other screen shot to better represent the trigger positions

JDM VVT all signals graph.png

2002 Subaru Usdm Ej205 2.0l Camshaft Position Non Avcs Sensor Not Reading

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